Guest: Dr. Natalie Berkman

In this episode, Dr. Robin Sargent interviews Dr. Natalie Berkman about her journey to becoming an instructional designer through IDOL courses. They discuss her background in higher education, achievements, and transition into a C-level role.

Tune in to hear:

• Dr. Berkman's insights on upskilling and leveraging new tools like Articulate 360 and Genially to enhance instructional design.
• Strategies she used to optimize her LinkedIn profile and portfolio, leading to significant career advancements.
• Her approach to positioning herself as a problem solver in her cover letter, which landed her a custom C-level position.

Listen to this episode below: 

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Enjoy the Episode Transcript below:   

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Welcome to Become an IDOL. I'm Dr. Robin Sargent, owner of IDOL courses. This is the place where newbies come to learn, and veterans share their knowledge. I have here with me today, Dr. Natalie Berkman and I invited Dr. Natalie because she recently reached her big IDOL goal in our brand-new version of our school IDOL Academy. And so I just wanted Natalie to share with us her experience, where she came from, where she is now, and just how she reached her big IDOL goal to become an instructional designer and so Natalie, will you please do a better job of introducing yourself and give us a little bit of your background

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

Absolutely. Well, thank you very much for having me. It's really exciting, because I've really been enjoying IDOL and the courses. Actually haven't technically finished the program yet, but I reached my big goal a little bit in advance, so that was really exciting. It was a big goal that I didn't even know I had, because I was already working in instructional design when I discovered IDOL. So a little bit of background on me. I did my PhD in French Literature and, through a long series of events, ended up in France. I was already working in higher education. My first job here in France was as an Academic Director at a creative media college, where, among other things, I was managing our LMS and doing higher ed type instructional design so curriculum development, helping teachers teach better, but not necessarily working with authoring tools. And then I got this really exciting opportunity to work at ESSEC Business School, which is the number two business school in France. And the job was the Instructional Design Manager, basically managing their instructional design team, which had three major responsibilities. First, we managed the LMS platform for all of the four campuses of the school, we used Moodle. Then second was basically training, making sure that the teachers used all of the tools properly and third was creating all of the learning materials for all of the campuses, for the pre-experience programs, the post experience programs, the bespoke training programs, MOOCs, for Coursera. And when I arrived, I discovered that there were all of these tools that I didn't know. We had Articulate 360 we had Genially, and they weren't necessarily really being used. And I thought, well, I think I should upskill and learn these and make sure that we can use them properly. And it was actually through those tools that I found IDOL and I signed up for the older version of the program in April, and then was able to get started on the new version in September. And all throughout that, I was able to learn about the best practices in corporate instructional design and how we could apply them in higher ed. And it was really exciting. And actually, thanks to IDOL, as I mentioned, I wasn't necessarily looking to leave the business school, but I managed to get a really exciting C-level job in a group of schools that specializes in training the future professionals of the video games and cybersecurity industry, so now I'm their National Academic Director, and looking forward to setting up so many things for them.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Okay, so you were already working in higher education, right, well post-secondary education, right? We said it was more like a business school. So was it more on the professional side, or was it like, considered like a university business school?

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

That's a good question. My first job was in a creative media college. In France there's a distinction between what's attached to the Ministry of Education and what's attached to the Ministry of Labor, and it was kind of a hybrid. We offer university degrees through a partnership with Middlesex University in the UK, but we also offered one training program that was certified by the French Ministry of Labor. The business school was also kind of a hybrid, and in the sense that they had programs that were certified by the Ministry of Labor, but they also were attached to the Ministry of Education. So they had a lot of different programs. They had programs for students right out of high school. They had programs from more at the master's MBA level. And then they had sort of executive programs, executive MBAs, and they also did bespoke training programs for different companies.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

And so you said that you were working here, and then they had these tools, and so that sent you on maybe a Google search. How'd you actually find IDOL?

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

Yeah, before I had started the job, I wanted to upskill a little bit on instructional design, and I, my former company had an agreement with LinkedIn Learning, so I did a series of training on LinkedIn Learning. So I learned about authoring tools a little bit, so I knew what to expect and so when I arrived at ESSEC, I saw Articulate, and I thought it's so exciting, I want to learn this too, especially since it wasn't really being used. They had purchased Articulate 360 just to use Rise for a series of really short training programs to train all of the staff of the school on the school strategy. The school had a big strategy called The Rise Strategy. So it was a sort of one-off project they had the tool for and I thought, oh, what a shame we should be using it for more. And I started Googling, and I think one of the first things that came up was IDOL. And I remember one of the first portfolios I saw was Tabatha Dragonberry?

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Yeah.

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

And I remember she had a thing on cybersecurity in her portfolio, and it was just the coolest thing. I didn't know that you can make training programs that look like that. It put you in the shoes of an ethical hacker and it was about a boring sort of thing, like, how not to get your email hacked. But it was really engaging, and it was really coherent, the visual style, it was really enticing. And I remember I sent it to all of the people on my team. I said, look at this, this is the sort of thing we can do if we use Storyline, not just Rise. And I think it was more or less that I started looking into it, and I thought, you know, I think I should treat myself to this, because it'll be really exciting and yeah, so the first thing I learned was Canva, and I just fell in love with Canva. Then I did the Genially training. I did the Vyond training, Storyline training, I did them all and I was also working through the program on the side. And then when you announced the 3.0 I was able to get in on that. And I really just loved what you did with Genially in the new program.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Okay and so then you did all the tech training, and, well, what we've now called, like IDOL courses On Demand, we kind of shifted that to, like more of the boot camp style and then we've recreated IDOL Academy would be accredited as a vocational school. So then you got into the vocational school, like redo that we did, and so you started working through there. And then what was it that transitioned you from your current role to the new role that you have? What was it that you started doing in IDOL Academy that just made the difference for you and made you consider getting a new job?

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

Yeah, I think one of the first things is that one thing I noticed with IDOL is right from the very beginning, you encourage everyone to position themselves as professionals, constantly, sort of selling themselves and I think that's a really good mentality to have. So, right from the start, even when I was mostly focused on the tools, I was looking at the other courses that were available on what's now IDOL on Demand, and there were all sorts of advice about how to optimize your LinkedIn profile. So I was just sort of doing that on the side and trying to publish a lot more. I updated my website, I created a portfolio, and I learned a little bit about how to make it all look nice and branded properly, because that's not something I learned in my PhD in French Literature at all, or in general, in higher ed. And so yeah, I was doing that. I had redone my CV just because it was part of the training, not with any intention to apply elsewhere. And at the same time, I was really focusing on trying to diversify what we were doing at ESSEC, trying to use all of these tools that we were lucky enough to have. We created eLearning modules with Genially, learning modules with Articulate Rise, with Articulate Storyline. They had really good feedback to a lot more engagement from the students. People were asking for more and more of it. But it felt a little bit like it was an uphill battle. And at one point, I think it was around last March. Suddenly, I just started getting a lot of recruiters contacting me. I think precisely due to the modifications I had done on my LinkedIn, I started getting a lot of engagement, and I had a number of higher ed recruiters writing to me about jobs. And I thought, you know, why not? So there's IDOL courses about how to do interviews, so I'll practice. It wasn't really necessarily my intention to leave, but then right around that same time, I saw this group of schools, Quest Education Group, where I am now, was opening a new campus in Bordeaux, now the third city they have campuses in. They specialize in video games and cyber security, which I thought was really exciting, and they accepted spontaneous applications. So I just put myself out there, and I ended up managing to get a C-level academic position that they created for me based on my cover letter.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

This is what I want to get into too, because people are like, what did you write in that letter that they made a custom director position for you at this school, Natalie. So like share with people, give them the insight. What was it that you did? What'd you write in that letter? And I love how you did it, because you really, you positioned yourself as their problem solver, so without giving any more of it away, so let them know what to put in your letter.

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

Yeah, and I think that that was also something that I don't think I thought about the job search that way prior to IDOL, and I really appreciated IDOL’s focus on how instructional designers are there to solve problems. And even though I don't necessarily consider myself an instructional designer, like the people I was managing at the business school, did a much, much better job of making beautiful and effective courses than I did, even though I've learned a lot with IDOL. I think that just positioning myself as a problem solver was really what helped me land this job, and so what I said was, you're expanding rapidly. You've got a lot more students. You need academic processes. You need a digital ecosystem that'll allow you to automate these academic processes. You would benefit from having asynchronous eLearning programs, preferably gamified because you're teaching video games. And you would benefit from a more robust strategy for your certifications and accreditations, which was also something I'd done at my previous job, and basically this cover letter, I basically just gave them, sort of those four aspects of what I would have considered a good strategy for them, and they agreed.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Yeah, you emailed it straight to the CEO, didn't you?

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

Yep, and now she's my boss.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

And now she's your boss. This is incredible, and you have not graduated from the school yet.

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

Nope, not quite.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Yeah, I love that part. I love that you are getting the results that you're looking for without even necessarily having to graduate.

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

Yeah, and it's really exciting too, because I wasn't necessarily looking to become an instructional designer because I was already managing instructional designers. But I really think that understanding instructional design, and especially corporate instructional design, and how that can be an added value for higher education and that space, I think it's been really exciting and to see IDOL practicing what you preach, right? Because my new company, we have professional training programs, vocational programs that are certified by the French Ministry of Labor and not education, with a skills-based approach and entirely project-based. That's one of the reasons, too I really was- when I saw that they were taking spontaneous applications, I thought, I have to give it a shot, because I have so much respect for this project-based approach. I'm living it now through IDOL and I love it.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

That's so- it's just so incredible just to hear your story, Natalie. So, you are kind of in the in a space where, like, you're in education, but you are developing professionals, right? You're developing professional skills, and so the skills of a corporate training are just so useful to you and where you are now.

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

I think that's a really insightful comment, too. I think that in France, these professional training- the professional certifications from the Ministry of Labor have undergone a huge renovation I guess that you could say since 2018. The former division that used to be in charge of it, called the CNCP, is changing to something called France Compétences which literally translates to "French skills", and they've become much more demanding about the requirements for all their certifications. It's become a lot more difficult to obtain and to maintain your professional certifications as a training center, and it's entirely based on skills like the most important part of the application is actually called the skills blocks, and you have to specifically demonstrate that your program is targeting specific skills that are necessary for the industry. And just like IDOL, if the students don't find employment with the proper title and the proper salary within six months of graduating, that hurts your chances at renewing a certification. And I think what you said about the corporate instructional design being really particularly pertinent to the space, I think it's absolutely true. I'm not sure that most people in France have realized it, because I haven't seen tons of corporate instructional design practices in this space, but I think that it's something that probably will follow specifically because the certification bodies are forcing a sort of competence-based approach. It makes perfect sense to bring instructional design practices.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

And you are literally spearheading part of this change in your own school that you're working at right. At Quest you are implementing those things in the program. And so how long have you been there? When did this happen?

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

Just a few weeks. It's actually very, very new. When I said I reached my big IDOL goal, it wasn't even this that I thought was my big IDOL goal was that I had secured two freelance clients, and I thought that was really exciting. I was making my own eLearning, not just managing other people who were making eLearning, which was exciting. Then between the time I submitted that form and got my IDOL mug and the time we were having this conversation, I got this big, big job. So yeah, my IDOL goal evolved.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

It sure did, and so are you still freelancing on the side as well?

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

I'm still finishing up one of those two projects, the one I finished and the second one I'm actually finishing in the context of IDOL as well.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

And then, so what are some of the things that you have already noticed now that you've started this role with Quest? I know we've talked a little bit about it, but what are some of the things that you think are going- that you've learned along the way, as you've gone through this process that you're going to implement as the Academic Director.

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

Yeah, I think the first thing I'm really excited about implementing are just processes that work with the tools that we have to reduce the administrative burden. That's the first sort of pain point I've noticed since I've been on site, we've got a really cool, proprietary learning management system, but it's not SCORM compliant yet. So the first step before I can start implementing some new learning that would be making sure that we get the developments we need on that, then my ultimate goal is really to create this- I really want to have a gamified, asynchronous learning to basically all of the instruction I want to flip the classroom everything that students need to know in order to do their projects, I want to put online so it's trackable, so we can analyze the student engagement, and that way, we can maximize what happens on site in the classrooms with the industry professionals who come in and help students from A to Z on their projects. And just like IDOL, the projects that students do at Quest are real world projects too. They're literally creating video games. They're literally doing cybersecurity work and all of that too, in the context of a French apprenticeship model. So the students at Quest they're also, in addition to their studies in parallel, they're working part-time, sort of apprenticeships with companies in the actual industries they're looking for.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Speaking of apprenticeships, you had to work on one as part of IDOL Academy. Who did you take on as your client or your externship?

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

So it was my former graduate institution, where I did my PhD, they needed an onboarding module for a mentorship collective that they're doing. And so I've been creating a cool, personalized onboarding module to help the mentors understand how to practice inclusive and productive communication with their mentees, understand the resources that are available to students, which might be different than the resources that the mentors had when they were students themselves, and also to understand the subtleties of mandatory reporting and what sort of issues they should be flagging, things like that.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

How neat, and what was kind of the outcome for you in doing the internship, because you were already working in the field and things like that. Did it enhance for you the things that you were doing in any way?

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

Oh, most certainly, yeah, I think that working on a concrete project was really useful. I think it was much more interesting than working on a sort of dummy project. I think it was nice too to have constant discussions with an actual SME. And also, I think just to tie it back as well with what I've been saying about corporate instructional design for higher education. This is a higher education client that is interested in the sort of corporate instructional design practice to enhance something they're doing. So I do think it was also another opportunity for me to prove that this is something that can influence greatly the higher education space.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

This is so incredible because usually I tell people, like, if you want to be a higher ed instructional designer, IDOL Academy will over prepare you, but what I never really considered, Dr. Natalie, was this other angle that you've really presented to me is that people in higher education that learn corporate instructional design can start to make the changes in higher ed and in these vocational programs to make them more skills based and applicable and project based. And even, like you've said a couple times, like, more engaging. And so in many ways, you've actually inspired me to kind of even change my mind about, like, how we can serve people who are instructional designers in higher education. So thank you for that.

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

And I think the proof is sort of in the pudding, because I know that at ESSEC, for instance, one of the projects that was recently completed was an optional certificate on disability awareness, and it was something that really exploded, especially during COVID. It was a series of 12 online lectures from professors, industry professionals, government officials, corporate HR, talking about the different aspects about disability and hiring people with disabilities, and French legislation regarding people with disabilities. And it was something that was really, really exciting. And when the person who organized it came to me and said, do you think I should make a MOOC, I said, why don't we do something no one's ever seen before? And so we made a- shout out to some of the amazing instructional designers at ESSEC who worked on this project. We had Nadia Kelmouss, for instance. Nadia created a bunch of cool videos on Vyond where we- sort of inspired by you. We had the person who was in charge of the training program that we made a character of her and Vyond as a superhero. And she introduced all of the modules and explained the different aspects of awareness and what the purpose of it was. She also created videos that in French are called, mises en situation, videos that sort of demonstrated situations that people with handicaps or disabilities might face on a regular basis, storytelling, talking about the history of disability throughout the ages, all sorts of videos. So she created all those on Vyond and Marion was our Genially expert. Created really exciting, engaging e-learning modules, where we once again pulled the Vyond character, the superhero, as the narrator of all of them. And it was a really exciting project. And even though I left the company, I have them telling me that, apparently, engagements never been higher. And this is for a voluntary certificate. Students don't have to sign up, staff members don't have to sign up, faculty don't have to sign up. Yet, they all have been and they've been doing the program even more than before. And I think the fact that it was fun, that it was engaging, that it was informative, but that it was ludic, I think, really helped. And we also took this sort of approach where we had at the end, a sort of self-evaluation at the end of every module, where the students were asked tough questions about what they knew before and what they knew after. The goal was really to encourage introspection, and it was a project that now they're talking about selling it elsewhere because it was so successful. So I think, like I said, the proof is in the pudding. We also had a subsidiary. I don't know if it's a subsidiary, it's a group called Council on Business and Society. They came to us to create courses, and we created a very nice interface for these video-based courses using Genially. Another one of our amazing instructional designers, Victoria, created that, and they're just so beautiful, and she used a lot of the best practices. I don't think she's done IDOL, but she clearly has an eye for the visual design, and with Genially they're just absolutely gorgeous. And it's a really more interesting way, I think, to get that sort of video content and so far, the feedback has been very positive. So I just say that even though this isn't something that's seen a lot in higher ed just from the little I've done so far, I think people really appreciate it.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

I think that you are- I think you're right on the money like that the proof is in the results, and that's so much of what's so important to us as instructional designers. So Dr. Natalie, I just love hearing your story, I love all that you've shared with us, and then just seeing that you're kind of like on the other side of the house. And so if you were to give kind of your last and final piece of advice for those who are looking to become an instructional designer, whether that's in the higher ed space or in the corporate space. What is your advice? What would you tell somebody who's looking to become an IDOL?

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

I'd say, if you love learning and you believe that anything can be taught, I think it's the right career path for you. It's such a diverse career as well. And that's one thing that I've learned through IDOL: the higher ed space, corporate space, and nonprofit space. Every single space is very different. Through talking with my peers on IDOL, through the Mighty Network platform, through talking with the people that I managed at the business school and other instructional designers here in France, everyone has a different experience, but I find that everyone's experiences tend to be positive, because it's just such a great way to do what you love and to transmit knowledge in a way that is effective and engaging. So my advice is, if that's what you'd like to do, go for it, because it's a really exciting career, whether you're in higher education, corporate or another space.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Well, thank you so much, Dr. Natalie. I am just so impressed with what you are doing over at Quest, and I can't wait to follow your career as you grow and really make a difference in these higher ed and vocational programs. So, thank you so much for coming and sharing with us on the Become and IDOL podcast.

Dr. Natalie Berkman 

Thank you for having me.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Thank you so much for listening. You can find the show notes for this episode at idolcourses.com. If you like this podcast and you want to become an instructional designer, an online learning developer, join me in the IDOL courses Academy, where you'll learn to build all the assets you need to land your first instructional design job, early access to this podcast, tutorials for how to use the eLearning authoring tools, templates for everything course building and paid instructional design experience opportunities go to idolcourses.com/academy and enroll or get on the waitlist. Now, get out there and build transcendent courses.

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