Guest: JD Dillon

In this episode of the Become an IDOL podcast, host Dr. Robin Sargent interviews JD Dillon, the Chief Learning Officer at Axonify and author of the book The Modern Learning Ecosystem. JD discusses his background transitioning from operations management into learning and development, focusing on supporting frontline workers. He shares examples of understanding workers' needs and problems to design effective performance support solutions rather than traditional training. JD emphasizes the importance of focusing on problem-solving over learning and using a variety of tactics beyond just courses.

Listen to this episode below: 

Subscribe to Become an IDOL Podcast: Apple Podcast | Spotify | Google Podcast 

Connect with JD on LinkedIn

Enjoy the Episode Transcript below:   

Robin Sargent
Welcome to Become an IDOL. I'm Dr. Robin Sargent, owner of IDOL courses. This is the place where newbies come to learn and veterans share their knowledge. I have here with me today JD Dillon and he is a popular figure on LinkedIn. He's the chief learning officer for Axonify. And so much more and recently the author of The Modern Learning Ecosystems. So, JD, will you please do a better job of introducing yourself?

JD Dillon
I think that worked out great. But long story short on me, I'm a, an operations practitioner who used to manage movie theaters and theme parks who then found his way into learning and development during my time with the Walt Disney Company. And then I've been doing my best to help people do their best at work every day since so, I've spent half of my career on the practitioner side and everything from an instructional designer, role content development Management Director throughout most of the work that we can do, and learning and development before transitioning over almost eight years ago at this point into the technology side of our industry. So the work I do with Axonify, we build technology and content solutions that help frontline employees do their best work every day. So I'd say if you, you ask what am I really excited about or really interested in, in this type of work is my passion really wraps around the part of the workforce that I think is woefully under supported, but incredibly important to everything that we do in our businesses, you know, in our communities, and that being the frontline workforce, but I recently heading towards about a year at this point, but recently published a book called The Modern Learning Ecosystem, which essentially tells the story of what I just said. So it's basically my story of how I kind of weaved my way from an operations background into learning and development and started to figure out well, how do I keep pace with change within an organization? How do I leverage the limited amount of time that I have available and the resources at my disposal to try to solve as many problems as I can to help people do their best work every day. So that's the book is really a combination of tried and true practices and an a core framework around how I think we can restructure the way we solve problems as L&D combined with a bunch of anecdotes about my background, and how I kind of tripped over these different ideas and figured it out as I went as someone who did not go to school to be in learning and development.

Robin Sargent
Okay, so we have to know the origin story, JD and so can you just get a little more granular and tell us? All right, so you were in operations? What did you do to make the switch and the change? And what was kind of a little bit more of that background for it?

JD Dillon
I'd say the two key things are one my undergraduate degree is in communications. So I had a background associated to things like radio television production. I was the kind of person who could build you an engaging presentation. Right, I was really into PowerPoint back in the day. So I had a certain skill set and sensibility around communication and associated skills. And then I tended, from an operations perspective, to be the manager who focused on employees. So I was the one who handled HR related responsibilities in my movie theaters, or I was the one who on boarded all of our seasonal employees. At Disney, I did a lot of work with the college program cast, the folks who come down for, you know, six, eight month internships. So I was always kind of focused on the employee experience side of the operation. I was the manager you typically went to, for things related to that. And I had this communications background. So I was dabbling in training, like I mentioned, onboarding, and kind of building what I wasn't considering at the time. But really, were kind of these foundational training programs in different jobs where I was an operational manager by day and kind of picking up HR responsibilities by night. And then at Disney, an opportunity came up, which was they were looking for operations managers to step into a temporary facilitation role as part of this big initiative around guest service standards. So they had designed an instructor led training program that they were going to deliver to every frontline employee and manager at Walt Disney World, which is 10s of 1000s of people over the course of a couple of months. So it was this major implementation designed to kind of reinvigorate people's passion around customer service, something that obviously Disney is very well known for. And they wanted voices from the operation side to deliver the story as opposed to the training department. Plus, they just didn't have that many training people to pull into this type of initiative. And I stepped into that team because I had that kind of interesting background as a manager and a communications person and someone who did a lot of facilitation. And so I was just the right person at the right time to step into this kind of job. And then I just never left. So I started as a facilitator delivering the same class every day, three times a day, five days a week, for months on end, it really was a great training ground when it came to leveraging the power of story and emotion or to drive a point home and to inspire people to think differently about their work. And then I started to take on additional responsibilities to you know, enhance the course that I was facilitating, build new materials, I can, hey, go below, shoot me a new video, because I have that kind of a background. So I started to kind of take on instructional development tasks, and then eventually stepped into a learning development manager role, and then eventually walked, you know, walked away to another opportunity outside of the Walt Disney Company, and took on our director role and learning technology and content development, and then kind of kept going from there. So it started as kind of a sensibility around the employee experience side of frontline work. And then I was in the right place at the right time to take on a formal opportunity and make a transition into learning and development. And that have been finding ways to shape a career in the space since then.

Robin Sargent
Yeah, so in some ways it found you. So I'm not I just have, I would just want to clarify one thing, just in case somebody doesn't really know, we've used the term frontline workers a couple of times, we've just defined what that means.

JD Dillon
Sure, I define it as the people who are directly facing your customers and our products as part of their everyday job. So common examples would be the employees that you interact with at the grocery store, or in a retail store, the delivery driver that dropped off your package earlier today, the folks in a manufacturing facility who are working with heavy equipment, the person on the other end of the phone that you call when you're upset about the service that you're being provided, and you need to tell somebody about that. So it's, you know, mathematically, it's somewhere around 80% of the global workforce, are those teams when you think about people in healthcare, and people in agriculture and whatnot. So it's that side of the workforce that I think is historically difficult to support, because there's, there's large numbers, they're hard to reach, they're distributed across locations, they don't sit in front of computers every day. So there's kind of this legacy of challenge around trying to make sure they get the help, they need to be successful every day. And I think we're at an interesting point, when it comes to kind of shifting that value proposition a bit. So I started as, as a frontline employee, my first job was in a movie theater, I then became a manager of frontline employees and in movie theaters and theme parks. And then my learning and development career has always wrapped around that audience as well. Even though I've delivered programs and design programs for all layers of management and different types of audiences. I was really focused on the frontline cast at Disney then I went on to focus in a contact center environment. And now as a technologist, I'm focused in areas like retail, grocery, hotels, the places that you interact with employees as part of your kind of products and service experience as a customer every day.

Robin Sargent
So in the modern learning ecosystem, who is that book for? Like, who is going to benefit ghe most out of reading this? Because I mean, your story is interesting, your experiences fascinating. And so you said you weave some of that in there. But you also, you know, talk about ways to solve problems. Who did you write that for?

JD Dillon
I'd say there are two kinds of tracks of audience. So at the heart of the book, and in title is a framework that I call the modern learning ecosystem framework. So the concept is that instead of throwing out the things that we do today, in order to be able to more effectively keep pace with change, keep up with stakeholders who are asking for solutions, asking for training, all of this type of stuff, our desire to get out of always having to build courses and provide alternative solutions that better fit people's needs. The framework at the heart of the book talks about restructuring what we do today. So maybe adding some things we maybe don't do tactically, but just moving the pieces around a bit to address problems in a different way that's more scalable, more systematic, more personalized, more data rich, those types of ideas. So along those lines, I think there are two groups who can use the framework and would benefit from the stories told in the book. There's the strategic side. So the people who are maybe stepping into a learning development department that's just getting started. Or maybe they're like I was years ago sitting in a learning development department and saying I can't do it this way anymore. I can't keep up, I need to figure out a different way to run this in order to deliver value to the people I'm trying to help. So I think the framework can be applied strategically to make different decisions when it comes to technology when it makes infrastructure, how you build your learning and development function. It supports that side. But it also supports the people who are actually building solutions as well. So the framework can also be used as a decision making tool. So that if you're an instructional designer, you're a learning & development manager, maybe a business partner or project manager, people who are directly working with the people who have the problem. The framework gives you a step by step guide to say okay, so someone comes to me and says I need training on. What's the first thing that you do? The answer is not yes, we should build training it is really digging into the problem. How do they know there's a problem? How are they measuring that problem, and then work your way through a variety of different tactics before we get to building structured training and building a course, that might accelerate how quickly we can put solutions in place, make them more sustainable, help us avoid courses all together in certain cases. So overall, I'd say there's kind of the the strategic side of the story where people are trying to put together a learning and development function that makes sense in today's workplace would benefit from the story because that was the path that I was on. But that also enables people who are building solutions to build them differently and gives a bit of a framework for solving performance related problems in more scalable ways.

Robin Sargent
I am so curious about how you have retooled and rethought serving the frontline workers who do not sit in front of their computers. I am sure that so many that listen to this podcast right now we're like, I also am facing a similar challenge. I know that the people that need this training, they don't have access to computers. So what are some of the ways that you have taken on that challenge and solved it for people? And what were some of those outcomes?

JD Dillon
The key is really understanding what it's like to do the job every day.

Robin Sargent
Yeah.

JD Dillon
Because the reality is that, and we see this as learning and development professionals with any audience, right? People don't come to us, because we asked them to write, we can't just build training and build materials and build courses and expect, yeah, people are gonna get value from this. We have to understand what it's like to be them. So how they do their jobs every day, where they do their jobs, how their time is spent, and managed, what tools they use on the job, and most importantly, what problems they face doing those jobs? And then how can I help? So whether that's helping people develop an entirely new skill set, it's helping people answer a common problem or answer a question that comes up a lot. It's helping someone maybe just got hired on the job, and is just trying to figure it out. And guess what the customer doesn't care that you started last week, right? They expect what they expect when they come to your store, they come to your restaurant. So the key for me is always I have to understand what it's like to be the employee what the workflow looks like. And I'd say, well, how do I help this person solve these different types of problems? And be open to the fact that the answer is almost usually like, it's rarely training? Training is very important. But there's a lot of other things I can do to help that person. And I think right now, we're in this interesting space, when it comes to enabling the frontline workforce. One, because the last couple of years have both highlighted the importance that the frontline workforce plays within our organizations because they kept us running for the last couple of years. And two, it also changed the dynamics of the frontline workforce in a way that you know, a lot of tacit knowledge walked away a lot of people retired. You're seeing organizations struggle to maybe they can staff a couple of for last couple of years staffing has been a major problem. In Frontline operations, they just couldn't find people. And if you tried to go to a business in the last couple of years and they've just closed, because they just don't have people, right, we're navigating our way through that. And there are certain industries that are still way understaffed, like professional nursing and health care. They just can't find people. So that's one challenge. But even places that have staffing now, they're not able to find people who have the same background, the same experience, they're not coming through the door at the same skill set. So the importance of having enablement around those people is even more important, because in the past, you might have been able to hire on, you know, oh, you've worked in retail for 10 years, yeah, you can kind of slide in to this environment, just figure out how we do it here and the products that we sell, now you're bringing people have no background in retail, maybe no professional background at all, or we have to ramp them up to speed quickly to be able to deliver the customer experience we're looking for. So it's there's those pieces in terms of the changing nature of the workforce. And then the technology side is just meaningfully different today. The proliferation of devices, right, the whole ecommerce online delivery thing changed the technology space within these types of businesses. So now you have grocery employees walking around with handheld devices, right, you have more people that are open to using personal devices in the workplace, and it being less about a being a distraction, and more about the opportunity that you get when you put technology in people's hands and what they can do with it. And then you add on the AI conversation to this. And it's meaningfully changing the types of information we can provide frontline workers, their ability to get support, kind of in the flow of work, how we reinforce critical skills. So there's a lot of interesting things we can do now to enable a frontline employee who doesn't sit in front of a computer all day, who maybe isn't hugely experienced in their job is just trying to do a good job trying to do good work, right, I firmly believe and if someone's at your organization, they're not trying to build a career. They still want to do a good job today. Right? They still want to earn their hours. They want to get their paycheck. They want to support themselves and their families. They don't want to get yelled at. They want to have a good time they want to like going to work. And I think we have a lot of opportunity to close gaps that we couldn't touch, even in 2018 2019, because of the way things have shifted over the last couple of years for fortunate and unfortunate reasons. And then again, I think organizations have recognized, you need this workforce to be engaged, highly capable, and highly confident if you want anything to work within your business, because they're, for lack of better term, the tip of the spear, right? They're the people that directly interact with customers and products every day, if they can't execute, your grand strategy isn't going to play. So it's an interesting time to be focused on this workforce, and it's way too late. But we still have a great opportunity to do it, we just should have been having this conversation, you know, 20 years ago.

Robin Sargent
I want a story, I want us to say what you just told us, but wrap it up in like, an actual example, like, how have you, you know, put yourself in somebody's shoes, you know, look through what their problem was, and created the solution, like, give me one example, the nurses, the grocery store clerks, whatever it is the most like the best store you got.

JD Dillon
I spent a lot of time in grocery stores for the past seven years, especially early on during my kind of initial transition into the technology side of our industry. And at one point, I was visiting a particular brand of grocery stores, and the conversation we were having was specific to performance support. So how do I as an either an inexperienced employee? Or how do I, as a person who's worked here for a bit but maybe doesn't remember the process or has to bake an item or prepare a food product? I don't prepare very often. So I need guidance on how to do that. How do I do that? Was the question. And as I toured the stores, I heard the word binder over and over and over again. And the natural follow up is where's the binder. And in some stores, they still can't find that binder. And other places, I'd see this binder and this binder had seen better days, right? Because it gone through stuff, stuff had been spilled on it. And I look at the printouts that are in the binder, and have to get manually updated every time a recipe changes the new products out of the process changes. We know what that's like. And the biggest thing that struck me was all photos are black and white, because they don't have a color printer in the back of all of these stores. Right? They don't have high quality graphics. But the food is in color in real life, right? You kind of need to know what the food looks like to get the right product on the other side, especially if it's a more complex or kind of visually ornate product. So having black and white photos, even if you can find the binder. There's a disconnect here. And then I started to ask well, how do you if you can't find the binder, you need to update the binder? How do you do this. And they talked me through the what the process was. And we got out of stopwatch and we clocked it. And we clocked the amount of time it took someone to go from behind a specialty counter at the grocery store, into a back room that no one knows is there to a computer, log into SharePoint folder, folder, folder folder folder, find the PDF document print. There it is, walked back. And it took 15-20 minutes to get to the information that someone needed right now to serve a customer or prepare a product. So that not only informed kind of our performance support strategy, it also informed how we built related technology because now I'm coming at it from a technology company perspective, in addition to a learning & development perspective, so we shifted the way that that organization works. And it sounds simple. But we basically took the binder, then put it online in the same tool that they were using for their daily training every day. So now people can easily search and find those process documents, all the images are in color. So they get a real representation of what the product looks like. And one of the coolest things is that because we have to think about, like I said, how frontline employees do their jobs, we have to design a solution that makes sense for where this work is done. So we have to look at the different departments in the store and say, well, where would you get this, like the back store computer isn't the right answer. But not everyone's carrying a smartphone. Not everyone's allowed to use their phones. They're working in environments where they're working with foods. So you don't want your personal phone like out in that environment, because you could drop it in the wrong thing, all types of stuff. And we actually discovered what I think is one of the coolest kind of training devices that I've ever seen, which is in that environment. One of the screens that they might pull up support information on is the deli scale. Because I didn't know that until I went into grocery stores is that when you buy your meat at the deli and they put the meat on the scale and the scale pulls up what it is and how much it costs. It's an internet connected device. That's how it knows what the current price of that product is. So on the back side of those scales is this big touchscreen that you usually don't see as a customer. So why shouldn't they be able to access work related information on that giant touchscreen that's staring them in the face as they're doing their job every day? You know, you're not going to stand there and complete a course on the back of the deli scale. But it was one of the many kind of access devices that we walked through within a store environment to say, well, you know, that's a great performance support opportunity, because this is where a lot of the questions are going to come up. Or people might need to look up information about the product. And then you know, we have tablets and other parts of the store. So it's really, it was one of my first experiences from as being a technology provider in the space really digging into what it's like to do the job where the job is done, the real problems people face and then solutioning to that. And at no point did we talk about building a course, to solve those problems, because it wasn't about retaining information in order to solve these problems about these different products, because the products are always changing. The recipes are changing, it's about having access to the right information. So you can do it right every time and do it consistently. So that when your customer, every time you buy that product, it's the same product, even though it's been baked a million different times by a million different people. There's consistency in that. And a lot of that is driven by making sure people have access to timely, reliable information. And I think everyone that's listening knows the answer to that is not the binder. So just eliminating the binder goes a long way. But it's not as easy as oh, put it online. Where? Right? So solving that problem for a very specific audience was just an interesting, easy but meaningful example of what I'm talking about in terms of understanding what it's like to do the job every day.

Robin Sargent
Oh, yes, this is an excellent example. And I'm so glad I asked you to tell a story. So you are the chief learning officer, do you hire your own team members.

JD Dillon
So I'm a bit of a different kind of learning professional from an internal perspective. So I do not manage learning and development within my own company. That's a different kind of side of the people and culture and enablement teams handle that I help. I provide opinions and perspective as someone who's done this for a long time, and does a lot of work with a broader learning development community. So inside of Axonify, I do everything from I do a lot of writing and speaking on behalf of the organization, I support different customer conversations, like I was talking about that grocery example earlier. So you might see me show up with different customers. I'm a big part of our customer event that's coming up. So you'll see me on stage a lot during our event, interviewing and facilitating panels with different organizations. And I do a lot of work kind of with the strategic side of our business, thinking about how we develop our solutions to fit the changing needs of the types of industries that we support. So I don't directly run a team in terms of learning and development internally, I more kind of advise and work across the different functions of the software company internally. And then externally, I engage with different parts of the learning development, employee experience, communities, sharing stories that I pick up along the way, or different principles that I've learned through my experience, which is where it kind of comes from.

Robin Sargent 
Oh, fascinating. So I just loved everything that you've shared with us JD, and I'm just wondering if there's any last piece of advice you'd like to give those who want to become an IDOL or an instructional designer? Because you have such a rich history, and you've worked with all these different teams, your book, The Modern Learning Ecosystem. What do you think are the most important ways for new people to this industry to start thinking. I think you've already dropped a lot of hints, but just wrap it up for us.

JD Dillon 
Solve problems. That's the biggest thing. So I wrote a book that has a framework image in it over and over and over again, that serves as the foundation of how I approach any problem that I'm trying to solve that has anything associated to kind of employee experience, learning and performance. But I have never been successful, walking into an executive meeting. And putting that framework, which I've been using for 10 plus years on screen and saying, here's our strategy for learning and development. Because the reality is that no one within your organization cares about this stuff as much as we do. Because we're sitting here talking about it on a podcast. Most of the people that you're working with your stakeholders, your audience's are not here listening to this podcast. So everyone cares about being capable, right managers want to a capable, confident team. They know that that's important executive, same thing. employees want to be capable and confident in their ability to do the job. It does not mean they care about learning and development. So I think we make that mistake. And assuming that because we know we can help, that people will be accepting of that help and understand what we're trying to do, and frankly care about the word learning. I try to avoid the word learning as much as possible. When I'm talking to anyone for any reason. You generally don't hear me say it that much. Even in this podcast. If you track to the amount of times I said the word learning probably did not say it many times. Probably sub 10 At this point, instead I like talking about solving problems. Because one, everyone understands what that means. So you're not suddenly having a conversation about learning a strategy, and people's eyes are glazing over, because they might not have had a great experience with a previous learning and development solution. And they want to talk about their sales goal that wasn't about learning, they want people to be capable of selling, get me there, right? So there's, there's that it helps us talk, adopt the language of the people that we're supporting more effectively, we talk about problems. And then the other thing is that I find it just opens up the world to us in terms of our options for solving the problem. So when we talk about learning, it's very easy to slide into course, or structured program or kind of a familiar tool set of learning and development when the conversation wraps around the idea of learning. But instead, when you talk about things like problem solving, behavior change, business goals, you suddenly can find other ways to solve that problem without ever having to get to the training side of it. If training is required. Absolutely, that might be a part of the solution. But when you look at the framework that's in the book, everything starts with making sure people have access to information, because people can self serve their way through amazingly complex problems if they have the right information. And it's built in a way that's actionable, reliable, easily referenced. And we don't have to build a course yet, at least. So for me, it's coming at things from the problem solving perspective, because suddenly, a job aid might be the solution, suddenly, a process shift might be the solution, suddenly moving a computer from that side of the distribution center to this side of the distribution center might be the solution, instead of having to train people. And I think that's critically important for L&D professionals, especially people who are new to the space or building up a function, because I'll wrap with this sentiment, that L&D is the most interesting function in an organization, in my opinion, because it's the one part of the business that everyone has an opinion on. You don't care what your accountants do every day, as long as they do their jobs well, the money is where it's supposed to be. They're specialists, they account, you leave them alone, you don't knock on their door, and suggest how they should do their job. People come to learning and development with pre baked solutions. I need a 45 minute training that covers these 300 slides. And you always have to sit there and wonder, how did you come up with that number? Why is it 45 minutes? And it comes down to the fact that that's how much time they're willing to allow? It has nothing to do with how long it takes to learn that particular thing and change that particular behavior. So people walk through the door with a pre baked understanding of what we do, because they all have experience with us, because they all went to school. So they think learning looks like school, or they relate what we are to their past experiences with learning and development as a person who's attended training programs as someone who's requested things before. And they come with that notion in mind. So it's critical for us to get past that mindset and help people understand that it may be 20 years ago, a course was the best thing we had, it was the only option because technology was a certain way. And our resources were a certain way. And people did their work a certain way, a course made sense. 20 years later, the world is meaningfully different, the way work gets done is significantly different, even over the last couple of years, technology is radically different. So I might have a much bigger toolkit, but people are still coming through the door, saying I need training on. So for me, it's critical that we adopt what I term a modern learning mindset. We expand our perspective on the role we can play and how we can help people be successful. And then we have to start demonstrating that to influence others to shift their thinking so that people stop coming through the door saying I need a 45 minute course on and instead knock on the door and say I'm having a problem. I know that you tend you've been successful helping me solve other problems. How can I solve this one. And now we're having a conversation that is, I think, much more fruitful for everybody and makes our jobs that much more interesting than ultimately helps people do their jobs more effectively. So that's where I'd start.

Robin Sargent 
That is just a beautiful answer. I think that we are completely in alignment. I have thoroughly enjoyed having you today JD so thank you, thank you so much. Do you want to share where people can find you and where they can find your book and learn more about these really great thoughts that you have?

JD Dillon 
I have the world's strangest book website URL. So if you're curious about the modern learning ecosystem, it's available at JDwroteabook.com And if you're curious, I do also own JDwroteanotherbook.com if someone does offer me the opportunity to do this again. Currently it redirects to the other side. So you can find everything about the book including what I believe is the industry's first read along. Which means that there's a series of videos and reflection questions on the site where you can read the book with me. So you watch the first video, I'll give you a bit of behind the scenes what's about to come up in the next section of the book, you read the book, use the reflection questions, come back, continue. So there's an entire read along as well as additional resources available, jdwroteabook.com, my personal website, where you my speaking calendar, and different stuff is is learngeek.co because I refused to pay for .com. And if you want to learn more about the work that I do during the day with Axonify, building technology and solutions for frontline employees, that information is available at axonify.com. And then let's connect on LinkedIn. I do a lot of sharing, including every day, I as well as several other folks in the industry are constantly curating opportunities that are out there for learning developer professionals, because I know especially when economic challenges pop up, how we can be impacted as an industry. So I curate job postings every week day on LinkedIn as well. So if you connect with me on LinkedIn, you'll see every day I drop a set of curated learning and development related jobs, as well as share other posts and opportunities that are out there. In addition, just things I'm thinking about or working on along the way. So let's connect and continue the conversation from here.

Robin Sargent 
Perfect, thank you again, I really, really appreciate you.

JD Dillon 
My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. 

Robin Sargent 
Thank you so much for listening. You can find the show notes for this episode at idol courses.com. If you liked this podcast and you want to become an instructional designer, and online learning developer, join me in the IDOL courses Academy we'll you'll learn to build all the assets you need to land your first instructional design job, early access to this podcast tutorials for how to use the elearning authoring tools, templates for everything course building and paid instructional design experience opportunities, go to idol courses.com forward slash Academy and enroll or get on the waitlist. Now get out there and build transcendent tours.

If you are a new listener to Become an IDOL, we would love to hear from you.  Please visit our Contact Page and let us know how we can help you today!

Subscribe & Review in iTunes

Are you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. I'll be publishing a new episode every two weeks and if you’re not subscribed there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on those. Click here to subscribe in iTunes!

Now if you’re feeling extra loving, I would be really grateful if you left me a review over on iTunes, too. Those reviews help other people find my podcast and they’re also fun for me to go in and read. Just click here to review, select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” and let me know what your favorite part of the podcast is. Thank you!

Want more tips on how to become an IDOL? Get my free guide here

Join the Conversation!

We have a wonderful and friendly community of expert and novice IDOLs in the Become an IDOL Facebook Group. We would love to have you join us in the group or chat with IDOL courses on of our social media channels.