Guest: Utdam Song

In this episode, Utdam Song, an instructional designer from Cambodia, shares his career journey from being a high school teacher to landing his first instructional design job.

Tune in to find out:

• How the IDOL courses Academy provided Utdam with practical, hands-on learning that complemented his academic studies
  
  
• How Utdam's performance in the interview process, where he demonstrated his ability to analyze a company's needs and propose solutions, helped him secure his current role
  
  
• The valuable insights Utdam shares about the surprising aspects of instructional design work, such as the focus on learning experiences rather than just technical skills

Listen to this episode below: 

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Enjoy the Episode Transcript below:   

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Welcome to Become an IDOL. I'm Dr. Robin Sargent, owner of IDOL courses. This is the place where newbies come to learn and veterans share their knowledge. I have here with me today, Utdam Song from Cambodia. He is an IDOL Academy Alumni and also a success story. Utdam, would you please do a better job of introducing yourself and giving us a little bit of a taste about your background.

Utdam Song 

Okay, hi, everyone. This is Song, Utdam Song. I'm currently an Instructional Designer at a company called Glean Asia. My background is as an educator, and I've been transitioning to becoming an instructional designer in the past six or seven months.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

So you were a teacher. What kind of teacher were you?

Utdam Song 

Previously, I was working in a public school, like government school in the high school level, so I was teaching English as the main subject in the school.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Oh, good. And then you actually got a couple of degrees before you even enrolled in IDOL. Isn't that right? What did you- what's your educational background?

Utdam Song 

Okay, back in the day, I was focusing a lot into the educational field, and then in the past four years, where my organization, the school I'm working with, they were talking about professional development journey stuff in there, I've been sitting down with a group of people talking about, like, apart from being a teacher, what can I do above that level? It was pretty tough finding the next career path for my journey. And then I was sitting down with those people, and then realize I come across a career path, which is called instructional design. But I literally had no idea what those people actually do in the industry. You know when researching, those people say, oh, you're gonna create e-learning. You have to be good at graphic design. It just gave me anxiety, because I'm being a teacher and then, you know, seeing all those kind of scary stuff in there, and that's where I initiate, put an effort to finding out, like, what literally, instructional design does. And I come across and study a Micro Masters from the University of Maryland, and then I did study several courses on LinkedIn Learning as well, and that's where I found love in instructional design. Yeah.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

So you were getting a master's degree, too, right? Like in instructional design, and then, you were about to graduate with your master's degree in instructional design when you reached out to me. Why did you think that you needed more? Why IDOL?

Utdam Song 

I think, based on the experience I have got from my Micro Masters, was that they immerse so much into like the theory. It's like the grounding theories about being an ed tech, instructional designer in the areas of education. But I didn't literally feel the sense of what I'd actually be doing being an instructional designer that’s when I came across a website which is IDOL. Then I did research where you guys were talking a lot about, we're gonna put you in a hands-on project. We're gonna get you to do real stuff in the industry. You're gonna get stressed out. This is how you’re gonna learn. So it comes to my attention that I'm really curious about what the experience would be like, you know, being a part of IDOL. So then I reached out to Dr. Robin, and then ended up enrolling in IDOL Academy.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

And so did we put you through hands-on learning and stress you out, Utdam?

Utdam Song 

Ooh, I- everybody has to put this in a notice, you know, like a sticky note. It's not easy, it takes effort but what I like about IDOL is that the environment, the supporting environment, from my study buddies, from advisors, from the coach, evaluators. Wow, I mean, those have kept me going throughout the journey in IDOL Academy.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

So, what was your journey like? So, you started going through the program, and then weren't you also still finishing up your master’s at the time? And then you were looking for work. What did that process look like? What's the timeline for that?

Utdam Song 

Okay, the story was that I took a big risk. Like, I literally started my Micro Master back in the end of 2021, and then I almost finished it in the end of 2023 and then in the end of September, where I found IDOL, it was like it was a harsh decision for me whether I'm going for my Micro Masters. I have to take IDOL. I have to take my Micro Masters in the hesitancies that I can't complete all those at the same time. Then I realized that actually, IDOL had given me a different side of what people actually are doing in the industry. And then what I studied from the master’s degree gave me an insight of what the theory have talked about, and IDOL have given me like what they literally doing in the industry. So I went through all those and I finished it in December 2023 and I graduated. And I carry on the journey in IDOL until this day.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

And then, when did you start doing your interviews? And when did you land your position?

Utdam Song 

I was invited for several interview sitting. And then I remember in February, where I got a call from a company where I'm working with right now saying that they would love to understand more about my situation and how my instructional design would help the company for better outcomes. And the result was in March that I received a call saying that I got a job offer. So I landed my very first job in instructional design, and my boss just told me I am one of the three existing in Cambodia and the only guy who got a license in instructional design, and he was very happy with the outcomes that I brought from March until this day. And he said he's really proud of the work I put in.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

That's incredible. And it's not even just that you landed a job. You were also telling me, before we started recording Utdam, that you got a scholarship. Can you talk about that?

Utdam Song 

Okay, I think the journey in IDOL from the end of September until December, when I graduated with my Micro Masters, that's where I found a government scholarship called the Australian Award. It talks about new technology integration in education and in VET or TVET systems, vocational training system like that and then it gave me a very touch feeling that I want to go further in the area of instructional design. I want to design better learning experiences for my audience participants and for my companies. So I decided to put all the experiences I have gone through IDOL and a master's degree. I have done the research, put in my application and guess what? I got selected in February, and then I actually went to Australia and just returned, like two days ago.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

And what'd you do in Australia as a part of this program? What did you guys work on?

Utdam Song 

So the program was focusing on new technologies. So they were focusing on one of the areas I'm really interested to further within my instructional design, which is AR and VR, how they integrate it in the industry, and how, what kind of policy and strategy can we bring about to influence the effectiveness within the training to meet the needs of the industry demands. It's like what I have understood from my background in my country was that we design curriculums and the curriculum standalone and try to meet the needs of industry from day to day. But what I learned from the program was that the demands of the industry always change. So, as instructional designers, we try to understand the needs of the industry and try to meet the needs just like IDOL has touched me. I went to Australia. I've been talking to those people. They're kind of like, get impressed. And so it's like, wow, you get such ideas. And I say that's what I learned. I've been exploring the whole time.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

And when do you- when you interviewed for the role that you currently have, did they ask you for your portfolio, or was your resume enough? Like, what was it they said, I mean, there's lots of great things about you, but what was it they said that, you know, helped them make the decision to hire you. What was some of the feedback you got?

Utdam Song 

I think I would say one of my strengths that pop up during the interview was that I tried to understand the needs analysis for the company, so they gave me just like a branching scenario which is happening in my country. And they asked me to actually, on the spot, do the needs analysis and try to bridge the gate and come about the solutions. And then I was sharing with them how I understood their concepts and how they are about to try to bring about the solutions. And I told them the process I would have done and then they got impressed. They say, oh, it's something new that we haven't heard before. It sounds like very easy, but no one ever talked about it, so they spot on and then, after the interview, I got selected. And then they have told me about the strength I actually got. The reason why I got selected was that I tried to understand, like the AGILE Learning Designs of the problem-based learning, and then come about, become like the mediators between the development team and then the industry, and then, help to communicate between the two and bring about the products for them and have them improve the quality of their trainings, outcomes.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Yeah, well, that's, I mean, the fact that they- you took an assessment, you took a test, and they put you into some type of needs analysis, and you had brand new ideas, and really, just that, was it right that? And I think that's- I like that I asked that question of you, and that you share that story, Utdam, because I think that people get different types of ways, like different tests in those interviews, or they look at different things. And I think it's really interesting that they looked more specifically at your ability to do needs analysis. And my other question for you is, you're an instructional designer now you've worked so hard to get into this field and to land this role. What was it that surprised you once you actually started doing the work as an instructional designer? Was there anything that surprised you about the role, or made you happy or with something like that, because it was different from teaching, right? And so now you're an instructional designer, which you've worked so hard to become. And so what is that you love about your job? What surprised you about it?

Utdam Song 

Okay, one of the things I like the most being instructional designer is sitting down with a group of people try to understand their pain points and try to understand what they feel like for them to see the success they wish to see. And then, you know, like come about, give them a road map of how the dot can be connected from time to time, and actually bring them to the ultimate picture, to bring out the quality outcomes that we all wish to see. And then, the second thing, what surprised me was that I always thought that an instructional designer always needs to be special in graphic design, you have to be good at coding frameworks. I always thought about like, oh no, I'm a teacher. I'm sorry, I don't do graphic design, I don't do coding frameworks. I don't think I'm eligible for that kind of position. But then it turned out to be that I'm focusing more on the learning experiences for the learners and for the participants, and not all of the time do I have to know all the graphic design stuff, it’s just all of those are complimentary. And it helped me to understand the pain points between the two people I just talked about, the client, and then the development teams. And you know how to bridge them together and bring that unified agreement to the solution.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Are you remote? Do you work from home?

Utdam Song 

Right now, I'm working full time at the office, but my boss actually told me if I can do remote, but the only things he wishes that, if I'm I am hanging around the office, I would have tried to understand, and help people out there to understand the communication factors, especially for the clients that we're working for. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to working remotely. I'm very-

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Yeah, that's wonderful. Is there anything else that you want to share about this journey that you've been on, any kind of insights that you would want to share with others who are also wanting to become an IDOL.

Utdam Song 

Okay, I would love to leave you with a story. That's what happened to me. Even at the times I was studying at IDOL, I still had doubts of my capacities being an instructional designer. I look up on the internet. I went around in a search, IDOL review, try to read people's story, people saying about they studied for four or five months. They landed the job, and it gave me a smile but at the same time of fears to confront, of what just happens. And I read like a Reddit forums and where people say about, oh, I don't like about the program. Oh, I've been there for one week and I love the program and then I was like, it gave me more anxieties to carry on doing the good work I'm doing. And then I told myself, Michael, just do yourself a favor. From October to December before you created your Micro Master program, and you believe that you land your first job in instructional design, do yourself a favor, commit to all those times that love being and really doing it well. And really did it the best. And I literally did it. And I literally read through all the Reddit forums, and then there is a Facebook group where they did the review, and lots of people say, oh, this like that. I don't want to make them feel offended, but I literally doubt myself, but until the times I actually landed my very first job, and it happened to me, and it does not happen to a story I used to hear. It used to be a story that I heard from people, but now it has become my story. So if you are waiting at the fence, waiting to do the same thing like I'm doing, go through the Reddit forums, go to the Facebook page and read the review. What I'm trying to tell you, is, like, I'm literally doing myself a favor to do what I'm doing. I'm seriously taking it, doing it well, and I devoted the past six months until I landed a first job in an effort do your favor. It's just the best you can do within the program, and you will land, you might land your very first job earlier than mine. We don't know.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Yeah, I mean and the thing is, in response to the Reddit threads, those are literally anonymous people that have not actually been through the program, and most of them are people who are, shall we say, wanting to compete with IDOL even though I fundamentally don't believe in competitors. And so they get to be anonymous in there, and they get to say whatever it is, and most of it is a lot of myths and untruths. You know, the fact that they think that we're some kind of like scamming boot camp or something like that when we are literally a state-authorized vocational school and things like that. So, as a matter of fact, in response to that, I just set up my own Reddit community. It is r/InstructionalDesignOL, and I hope to build a welcoming and supportive and kind community there on Reddit that way people can get supported because if you go into that r/InstructionalDesign Reddit, and you look at the response that like teachers or career transitioners get just to any kind of query, it's like a toxic water cooler where people just go to complain and gatekeep. And so I actually- I literally set it up yesterday, so it's funny that you brought that up. But, yeah, I mean, of course, you go and read all those different things, there are multiple different opinions online, but I love your story about how you're like, I'm just going to ignore that and commit to myself and commit to the process because that's what works right, belief in yourself and persistence, and you are absolutely an example of that. And so what is your best and final piece of advice for those who want to become an IDOL.

Utdam Song 

Okay, that's mainly for all the teachers who wish to transition from being an educator to instructional designers. You don't have to be good at all those things, like instructional designer e-learning developers. You don't have to be good at graphic design. You don't have to be specialized in even coding frameworks. You don't have to go to university to take, you know, coding courses. IDOL has saved you up for all the training. What I literally told you is that they literally teach you the training skill, the skill set that they're doing in industry. And it's not like grounding theories where you studied a lot, and you didn't actually execute and implement those into the real industry world. And what I like about IDOL is that they literally asked us to go and find a volunteer client. We're giving back to the communities. We're helping them. This is how we learn. This is how we are doing in the industry. Just one you didn't get paid. There's another one: you get paid, and you will deserve the payments that you have put effort into. And just last of my advice is that IDOL is not a one-size-fits-all platform. It is a loving community there to support you, to walk with you, to go through with you, to mark your life journey as an instructional designer, and to witness your improvements and your growth. And I wouldn't say I have become who I am today without the communities, the people, the good people out there, you know. I actually wanted to shout out to all my study buddies. They keep asking me, how you guys doing, where are you at? And these people are actually following me. They say, oh, I've lost track, and then they found me, and then we talked on Zoom, and we catch up on the lessons, and we talk about the sector, family affairs, you know. Being an IDOL is not a company. It's a family affair. We want everybody to get the job; you have to land a job. We want it. Yeah.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Oh my gosh, I love it. Thank you so much for sharing your story. For you know, being a part of our alumni community, you really are just an example of what makes this program special, and it's the people like you who come and participate and do the work and are committed to the education and the furthering of these communities and your learners, and especially your own growth and so thank you so much, Utdam, and I really appreciate you coming on the podcast today.

Utdam Song 

I'm really grateful for the opportunity to be part of IDOL. This is my very first podcast for IDOL, and I'm very proud to be the very first podcast participant from Cambodia. On behalf of IDOL, I really love IDOL. Yeah, thank you very much.

Dr. Robin Sargent 

Thank you so much for listening. You can find the show notes for this episode at idolcourses.com. If you like this podcast and you want to become an instructional designer or an online learning developer, join me in the IDOL courses Academy, where you'll learn to build all the assets you need to land your first instructional design job, early access to this podcast, tutorials for how to use the e-learning authoring tools, templates for everything course building and paid instructional design experience opportunities go to idolcourses.com/academy and enroll or get on the waitlist. Now, get out there and build transcendent courses.

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